>>14726080
>rape

>>14726080
FUCK I JUST MADE MINE FUCK

>>14726095
DELETE IT MOTHERFUCKER JESUS

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Are we dressiest horse?

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or we can be Rarity, too.

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>>14726102
Maybe.

>>14726080
I can't enjoy pony because pony isn't real.

>>14726101
IT FUCKING WONT LET ME FUCKING COOLDOWN FUCK

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>>14726102

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>>14726102
I hope so

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>>14726122
YOU FUCKED UP
YOU FUCKED UP
WE'RE ALL DEAD

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>>14726102
Of course

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>>14726146

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>>14726146
Good.

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>>14726142
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
I REGRET NOT ACCEPTING THAT HORNY JAPANESE GIRL'S OFFER TO CAM FOR ME

>>14726080
>season 4 not on yayponies
why?

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>>14726142

>>14726178
http://pony.bronyasia.com/7id4.php

>>14726178
But it is.

>>14726181
I'm going to have to ask the uncropped version.

>>14726187
>not http://pony.bronyasia.com/1id4.php

Which ones of you faggots are responsible for the fandom calling that silly prop a cane?

I am not surprised that it stuck around, considering the silly face on the end, but seriously?

A cane?

It's a scepter. A SCEPTER. This is not a difficult subject to understand.

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>>14726181
I want to forcefeed a fat Fluttershy as long as she liked it

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>>14726197
>>14726206

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Are you guys still Risk of Rain? I think I went too far, but I swear I went to the final level as soon as I unlocked the Alien Head.

>>14726202
Not us.

You will never be a chubby mare in a pretty dress

>>14726220
>hmm, I think I know the artist
>check
>I'm right
Damn it why do I always come back to him?

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>>14726220
dick move brah

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>>14726234
>that tfw

>>14726223
Downloaded that today. Its pretty fun. So far I've only unlocked a few items and the Enforcer.

>tfw couldnt even get passed the 3rd level.

Oh well, SHIELDS FORWARD

Stoner Gilda
>>14726223
>Needing all those drones
casual
>Using the OP character
ultra casual
>>14726234
I'd rather be a griffon

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new MILFity coming soon. within the week. MILFity's day off, filled with cat and lazy and pretty. watching new pony revitalized me.

>>14726236
if i may ask, who is the artist?

>>14726223
I just got done playing this and fuck fuck fuck I can't get anything done past the second stage. It escalates too fast for me to do handle, with enemies crawling into my various holes.

>>14726220
fffffffffffffffffffffunff

>>14726259
http://derpibooru.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&sbq=artist%3Abadgerben&commit=Go

>>14726258
How about filled with dick

>>14726259
http://www.furaffinit
y.net/view/12117964/

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>>14726258
Yeessss

Been waiting for this for too long

>pony will never beg you to throatfuck them

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>>14726258

>>14726250
I couldn't beat it until I unlocked Acrid. I'd definitely recommend using Commando until you unlock somebody you like.

>>14726253
>needing
I just picked them up along the way, trying to spend money. I only had one regular drone until I started going around the stages again.

And what's this about Huntress being OP? It's not like I'm using the Mercenary.

>>14726266
Takes some getting used to, but prioritize the teleporter. If you haven't at least started the TP event before three minutes, you're doing something wrong. Don't farm, just get to the teleporter and pick up any items you can during the time between hitting it and leaving.

>>14726283
>you are not allowed to view this image
What's the fucking point? There are tons of NSFW stuff hosted on FF that doesn't require a login.

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>>14726322

Can we all agree that the premiere was mediocre as fuck?

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I said dressiest guys.

The implication being dresses. Jeez.

Nobody wants to see crisp white pony naked bodies right?

>>14726296
>And what's this about Huntress being OP? It's not like I'm using the Mercenary.

>Has an ability that can bounce off of enemies
>Has an ability to causes small bombs to drop
>Short range teleport
>Automatically changes aiming direction

She's the only character I manage to get to Risk of Rain (three times by the way) with.

>>14726296
Yeah commando is cool, I just like how the enforcer plays.

I'm guessing you have to kill Acrid to unlock him? I found his cage once but died shortly after releasing him.

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>>14726278

that's the plan. but later.

i have new inspiration on both the "MILF" side and the "-ity" side, so i'll be throwing a lot of shit against the wall and watch what sticks. bear with me in this transitional period.

>>14726336

Nope. It was great. Loved it. Only criticism being Rarararara didn't get quite enough screen time compared to the others.

>>14726336
No, the premier went rather well as premiers go. One or two issues like the flashback potion and pinkie Pinkie being obnoxious aren't enough to push it down to mediocre.

http://derpibooru.org/340312

>>14726352
Rarity is my favorite of the main 6 and I disagree. Whoever was writing for Rarity in the premier did a piss-poor job of it. All of her lines sounded like she was trying to butter up the new princess and take advantage of her new connection like the greedy whore she isn't.

>>14726352
>>14726362
>replying to him
He's going to call you shiteating bronies

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>>14726382
>isn't

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>>14726337
Fine. Dresses.

>>14726296
And you're just supposed to rush to the boss all the time? That usually gets me killed because I end up with a dozen assholes breathing down my neck and little to no items to buff me.
Also I can't get into commando at all because he can't do crowd control nearly as well as Enforcer.

>>14726382
This.

>tfw will never be turned a curvy diamond dog and trained by Rarity

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Have some humanized Sunny and Dulce before I go to bed.

Sorry GR.

>>14726344
Is that her being op, or fitting your play style well?

>>14726405
Who cares.

>>14726352
>>14726362
>>14726386
>great
>meghan episodes
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

THAT'S LIKE ADMITTING OF EATING SHIT

>>14726382

as a deacon in the church of Ra, i agree with this. there was too little Rarity, and what there was wasn't good.

>>14726413
I care, I want to be a slutty diamond dog.

>you will never roll pone into an emponeada

>>14726386
>>14726415
Like I give a fuck. It's not my problem if this shitty troll doesn't like decent episodes.

>>14726395

steampunk Rarity when

>>14726397
>tfw EA taunts you

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The season 4 premiere are my favorite episodes.

>>14726427
My favorite episode is The Show Stoppers.

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>>14726426

>>14726436
Great taste.

>>14726421
>Steam punk
Rarity would never stoop so low, she'd obviously go for diesel punk or deco-punk

>>14726443
Thank you.

>>14726411
WHAT IS THIS? BREASTS FOR ANTS?

>>14726437
No she isn't, she's looking back at her EA please stop holding my boners hostage just tell me your demands.

>>14726427
They're pretty good for something that's 70% worldbuilding and lore.

>>14726436
Same for cutesy misunderstandings. We DID get super adorable Sweetie singing from it.

>>14726436

I hope you die and go to hell.

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A simple thread for simple men.

>>14726452

That's any breasts, for you...

>>14726453
Hostage?

I guess my demand is to know what sort of bonering you're after

>>14726420
>generic meghan premiere
>decent
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW

Don't worry, brony. You will call it shit soon enough after we saw some good S4 episodes that aren't written by that piece of shit writer.

>>14726462
You always come in here and start posting crop of stuff I know, enticing me to start ERP, but I know that's what you want. Someone to play with.

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>>14726421
>>14726444
vaguely

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>>14726455
Gooood, let the butthurt flow through you.

>>14726411
Now draw the one on the left on a leash blowing somebody.

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>>14726456
Why thank you Leth.
Oh gosh oh gosh my first thread is a success

itunes rip on youtube when

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>>14726411
You are going to have to go bigger than that.

>>14726427
>hypefag

>>14726492
>youtube

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>>14726481

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>>14726478
Welp, you got me there

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>>14726478
DO IT
DO IT
MAKE HIM MAKE YOU SPURT

>>14726491
I recognize that trace.

>>14726502
>>14726503
NO YOU TWO PLAY OR SOMETHING I'M NOT LETTING EA TOUCH MY BONER AGAIN

>>14726505
didnt onta/doxy draw that

>>14726514
>again
What did he do the first time?
What's your poison, anon?

>>14726444

i forgot about dieselpunk, actually.

THE LADYWING: masked crimefighter, adventurer, aviator. RARITY DIAMOND: jet-setter heiress, socialite, heartbreaker.

Why have the two never been photographed together? When will luck catch up to THE LADYWING? And how long can RARITY DIAMOND hope to keep her secret from BUCK SAULTERTON? All we know for sure is: it's time once again for another thrilling installment of The Adventures of Ladywing!

This week: In the Lair of Doctor Totenklein!

https://derpibooru.org/167015

>>14726557
it's shit

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>>14726557
Whaaats wrong with her face?

>>14726557
The face looks like it's hinged and coming off.
guh

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>>14726364
>no fat chicks

but fat is beauty

>>14726524
I like how you think.

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>>14726577
I'm more interested in that massive booty she's lugging around back there.

>>14726577
I always wondered how morbidly obese people's skeleton handled all that extra weight. Like clearly they have the same structure as a thin person, it's amazing that at one point their legs wouldn't buckle under them.

>>14726557
she has a nice body, and I suspect a decent and even attractive face, if it wasn't for the look she is trying to give. I don't know if she is too dumb or naive to know she looks like she has downs but that is my fetish, stupid women that will conform to my fetishs.

>no episode of fluttershy learning material arts and then beating up a bully monster

>>14726514
What did I do last time?

>>14726517

What are you drawing lately rediv?

>>14726644
she recently posted some spike ass

>>14726579

[footsteps on metal]

"Oh, drat and blast. Well, Antoinette, dear, it looks like this could be the end!"

"The end? Why, Ladywing, you're not suggesting..."

"I'm afraid so, Annie. I can't see any way to get this blast door open, and with my spare transenergy ray blaster in the White Widow, there won't be anything to stop that robot!"

[metal sliding against metal, wooshing]

"Ladywing! Antoinette! In here, quick."

"Bu-- I mean, who in the blazes?"

[footsteps on metal, metal against metal, wooshing]

"Sorry for the fast introductions, LW, but that robot won't wait for etiquette! Name's Buck Saulterton, big fan of yours, undercover for the Global Police Bureau."

[buzzsaw cutting through metal]

"Hey, that blast door ain't gonna hold for long, Ladywing, we'd better zip!"

"Language, Antoinette! After all, even when facing certain death, a lady must act the LADY. Especially when in the company of such a... rugged man."

"Yeah, yeah, I'll send ya to Paris for a week. Let's blow this joint!"

[fast footsteps on metal, buzzsaw recedes]

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>>14726644
a few random things here and there to work on how I feel with my art. Trying to get comfy with it. Sometimes requests here and there and then commissions

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>>14726617
>stupid women that will conform to my fetishs.

That sounds kinda fucked up.

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>>14726659

>>14726659

Rediv pls, are you gonna draw rule 63 royal couple porn or not?

Let me sleep

>>14726695
Sleep first. I probably might doodle it later.

>>14726659
What about futa rr x futa rosemary

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>>14726673
its not that fucked up as it sounds, i think...

>>14726702

Now I can sleep easy, knowing that there's a future prospect of blood flowing into my penis.

Thankyou.

wow ded

>>14726750
Early morning threads are always ded.

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Which named stallion who hasn't had much focus would you like to see get some?

>>14726762
Starswirl

>>14726762
That one.

>>14726772
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eoOgSR5bKg

>>14726762
Shining Armor

rarity is kill

>>14726762
Fancy Pants, maybe Soarin'

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>>14726846

Rarity is life.

>>14726855
I would kill to be with that mare

>>14726855
I would kill that mare.

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>>14726867

that would be bad. Rarity loves only good men.

>>14726890
...I would donate to orphanages and help the homeless to be with that mare

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>>14726846

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>>14726889

we also manufacture humans.

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>>14726890

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Is it time for fancy horse

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>>14726898

>tfw no Sex and the City-style micro starring Twilight and Rarity doing FASHION things

>>14726890
what about good women

>>14726908

But you don't even have a dick, how are you going to secure her lineage?

>>14726897
I would kill that human Rarity, travel to Equestria, kill Pony Rarity, travel to Dogverse and kill Dog Rarity

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>>14726898
I love those two mares together

>>14726912
This anon has a point.

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>>14726907
>that feel when not enough traditional unicorn arts

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Rapeable humans off the port bow

>>14726921
>implying I would let a pony rape me
I'd use pony as a blunt weapon if she ever touch me in my no-no area trying to make forceful whoopee

>>14726907
The problem is that FASHION doesn't work well with Twilight.
The only way I could see this working is if it's rarity preparing Twilight for some kind of royal dinner or some other high class event which includes a makeover, new cloths and training in etiquette.

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>>14726908

it's the person you fall in love with, not the plumbing.

>>14726912

adoption, artificial insemination, and so on. though i wonder how her father would react to his daughter introducing him to her girlfriend.

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Did...did I scare everyone away?

>>14726972
Yes.

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>>14726972

shhhh

pony is asleep.

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>>14726940
now that she's the only unicorn of the group, Rarity needs to find another one to get along with

>>14726988

Trixie?

>>14726988
Perfect

She can breed Rarity with her fat futacock

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There's a pony mimicking you right now.

>>14726988
Pony eskimo kisses are the cutest thing ever

Now make them eskimo kiss with the other end

>>14726988
Oh no Rarity is going to be eaten!

>a lot of old Marmaduke comics are posted in a thread on /v/
Jesus fucking christ. Those things are just wrong. I need some cute ponies man. They help me forget those kind of things.

>>14727018
What is wrong about marmaduke?

>>14727014
Who is Twist?

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>>14727023
It's just fucking wrong man.
I mean holy shit, his fucking angry stare never changes.

>>14727035
Is that large dog about to rape that man?

Why do newspaper comics make absolutely no sense?

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>>14727054
He rapes everything.

That dog ain't coming back home alive

>>14727054

only that one and Heathcliff.

>>14727066
>Heathcliff
The fuck was that shit anyway. I fucking dare you to find one single Heathcliff that makes sense.
Protip: you can't

DED

PONY PRINCESS CUDDLES

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>>14727127
unf?

>>14727014
Rarity.

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>>14727137
That's good too.
I was thinking whiter and bigger

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I've been out of the horse loop mlpg, tell me, is the season 4 premiere any good?

>>14727164
9/10 BEst premiere since season 2.

>>14727164
I consider it as good as Return of Harmony.
it's a solid 8

Most of MLPg liked it.

You should watch it.
Twilycorn is good in it

AJ is also worst pony in it

>>14727152
Any Princess is fine, that's just the first image I found.

>>14727173
>aj
>not ponka
They really wrote her shittily.

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>>14727173

But AJ is muh favrits, does she continue being a backgound horse?

>>14727187
She basically admits that she's shit and not important as Twilight

>>14727187
No, she continues to be a dumb horse.
Just watch the episode.

>>14727164

Yes. Better than return of harmony in my opinion.

I was thinking, when I read fanfics I prefer cuddling and romance/intimacy to actual sex. Could it be because I
A) Idealize cuddling
B) I have never had sex
C)Cuddling is great
?

>>14727200
Ponies are not for sexual

>>14727208
Tell that to my balls.

>>14727208
only colts and fillies are not for sexual.

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Is there a luna episode for season 4? She is my favorite poh-nee

>>14727200
There was this Twirity fic that I really loved.
Mostly romance, no sex, pretty sad till almost the end.

It's my favorite fanfic now.

Anon being turned into a Slutty Griffon

>>14727226
Griffins are not for slutty

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>>14727226
>cloacae have no erogenous flesh
>animals that have cloaca generally have to be raped to be impregnated

being catbird must be suffering

>>14727226
No, fuck you, Gilda's a bitch.

>>14727265
Well, her rear legs are cat, so she probably has a cat vag.

>>14727265
and people wonder why gilda is always bitchy.

>>14727274
>he doesn't know how awful cat sex is
BARBED
PENISES

>>14727281
Have you ever fucked a cat?

>>14727282
No, I'm saying that either she has a cloaca and no erogenous zones or that she's used to have her inner walls scraped by spikes.

Hey, maybe I understand why she's a lesbian.

Fluttershy must smell like shit all the time.

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What if the background pony that gets an official name and a lot of screentime is this guy?

>>14727303
and piss.
And I'm sure she's got fleas, you can't go around with animals in your house (and let us not forget a squirrel in her hair) without catching anything.

Rollin'

Evens - Draw
Odds - Vidya

>>14727309
you know the drill.

>>14727309
Regardless of which pony it ends up being, nearly everyone here will be mad and the fandom will go nuts. Like usual.

I want to be turned into a filly and raised by Twilight

>>14727328
Unless it's derpy. But we're sure it won't be derpy because hasbro hats us.

>>14726930
Oh God now I want this episode so badly. Given that it'd have to be this season they either did it or didn't, but I hope they realized how perfect this would be.

I can even see the song.

meow im confizzled

>>14727328
What if it ends up being some background filly like Dinky or Rumble

>>14727348
DRESS WHORSE WORST WHORSE

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>all of these memes that have come out of the premiere

I didn't even make the relation between the potion and jizz though

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>>14727152
oh man am I late for the pony princess

>>14727362
>I didn't even make the relation between the potion and jizz though

The hell is wrong with your libido.

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>>14727329
>You will never be in Twilight's school for gifted unicorns

>>14727319
stram

>>14727372
I hadn't slept the night before and I was already running on 2 hours of sleep the night before
I was pretty out of it

>>14727372
Do you think of jizz every time you drink milk?

>>14727389
Who doesn't?

>>14727362
It's one of the first things that went trough my head during that scene.

Still it's better than to be on the opposite end. there was this post on a tumblr where someone said that "the vines, Twilight drinking the white potion, and Discord in a maid costume is proof that the show staff is embracing clop".

>>14727378
But no-one likes LoL strams.

>>14727399
>taking tumblr seriously

I thought it was funny when discord was reading winter wrap up. I didn't want to come to mlpg to talk about the episode for a while because it would have been 2fast4me

>>14727396
Well I mean I definitely do I just wanted to be sure that's normal

>>14727372
not him, but i'm legitimately ballless

>>14727372
Sounds like it's not in control of his life.

>>14727389
I think of Milky

>>14727407
Eh well at least the artist of that tumblr was more rational.

And yeah Discord singing Winter Wrap Up made me chuckle. I wonder where he lives tough. I mean they had to summon him from somewhere and it didn't seem he was staying in Canterlot seeing how he only now "congratulated" Twilight.

>>14727414
Hey me too! High five!

>>14727374
Why is there the wonderbolts academy and the school for gifted unicorns but not a special school or academy for Earth Ponies?
>Applejack's school for bucking
>Pinkie Pie's school for partying
I guess those could work

>>14727400
>LoL
it's only good if you're amazing or as bad as Klondike

>>14727425
I wish they would at least involve a new villain. They seem to recycle discord since the studio loved star trek a lot or something

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>>14727368
you're late,anon. I'm sorry.

Winged mary sue-light sparkle is actually growing on me and isn't as annoying as I thought she would have been.

Props to the writers for dealing with one of the worst character developments I've ever seen ham handedly worked into the lore to sell more toys.

>>14727445
exctly what I thought.

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>>14727443
no
no that's impossible

>>14727438
Earth ponies are shit and everything they do can be learned in 20 minute class on plant biology.

>>14727445
>Winged mary sue-light sparkle is actually growing on me

Same here. But the season is young, Anon. Let's see if they can keep it up.

>>14727445
I hate it slightly less but it's still nowhere near to growing on me and I don't think she was handled very well, Meghan was just trying to balance it out by making her completely useless and shit at nearly everything, which is stupid and yet more bad writing.

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can someone help me find a gif, I've never used derpibooru before

>>14727439
Well, I'm pretty bad.

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>>14727454
gotcha!

>>14727480
>Meghan was just trying to balance it out by making her completely useless and shit at nearly everything

It's better than what they did in the 1986 Transformers movie. Killed off Hotrod and replaced him for a little while only to bring back in the TV series as Rodimus Prime

>>14727348
They really have some very good opportunities to use Rarity and Twilight together now.
Both have higher education, bot seem the type to enjoy cultural events like theater and opera and stuff like that, both like Canterlot and know some stuff about it and since now Twilight is a princess they have even more scenarios.

Really seeing them pairing Pinkie and AJ gave me hope for other very underused pairs like AJ and FS and Twilight and Rairty

>>14727480
Fucking this.

Meghan can't do fucking shit by writing Alicorn Twilight well.

She just degrades her even more.

>>14727445
Well so far all her wing have done is made her dorkier (sparkleboom notwithstanding) so s'all good.

>>14727541
That scene where she starts freaking out till she hits the ceiling was great.

>>14727541
Twilight was always and incompetent dork with self esteem issues. Having wings and being in charge has only compounded the issue.

>>14727445
>>14727541
>>14727553
they might even be able to handle the rest well when they become alicorns

>>14727487

At least you aren't arguing that ghost beats flash on any champ. Right?

>>14727485
A gif of what?
If it's of a scene from the show rather than a fan creation, Derpibooru kinda sucks for finding images from the actual show.

>>14727414
>>14727433
You might aswell call yourselves GAY.

>>14727566
HIghly unlikely.

>>14727566
Stop hammering on the old slippery slope fallacy chicken little.

I sincerely doubt even the jews at Hasbro could pull a fuckup like making everyone princesses.

>>14727566
As long as "handling well" is limited to "make them behave the same with the occasional 'whoops I'm pretty bad at [new thing] haha' thrown in"

>>14727579
It's pinkie drooling at the start of the episode. It's the second time that she's out of it drooling over frosting

>>14727584
I think they can pull it off.

>>14727566
The worst case scenario is Rarity becoming one too, seeing how much she wants it but even that's very unlikely.

>>14727593
No, highly unlikely that will ever happen.

>>14727573
I'm not arguing anything. I tend to do unconventional shit just to have fun and see if it works.

>>14727584
>>14727585
>>14727594
oh not this season
thats too soon

>>14727600
I meant never. Really that stained glass scene kinda made it clear.

>>14727594
>>14727588
>>14727585
>>14727584
ITT: Bronies who don't know how a cartoon about little girl toys work.

>>14727597
It's about as unlikely as Discord being like Q.

I caught the very end of Equestria Girls before the premiere.
Seeing the other pones tease twilight for having a crush on the yellow stallion kinda made my heart sink, not because she's MUH WAIFU or anything, it just felt cool to have a show about girls that didn't involve romance much, y'know?
also,
>I left her in good hands.
>...what are "hands"?
That would've been funny if they hadn't said phrases including "hands" throughout the series.
Being pedantic nerd is suffering.

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>>14727594
>Rarity being princess is the worst case scenario

oh god you're right, if they did that they would ruin all of my rarity princess fanfiction

>>14727603
yeah it made it pretty clear that its happening eventually

>>14727605
Yeah, it ain't gonna happen.

>>14727591
There's a few under "creamy creamy frosting, animated", but all the ones of the second scene are either poor quality or looped stupidly. Thought I saved a decent one from here the other night, annoying, but it doesn't look like it. I'll poke around the /mlp/ archive and see if I can find the one I'm thinking of.
Also, why are we spoilering.

>>14727603
>implying hasbro gives one shit about continuity when there are potential toy sales to be made

>>14727616
Exactly. It'd be like putting Princess Cadance in charge of the Crystal Empire, or letting Princess Luna raise the moon.

>>14727617
I could probably make it myself, but I've never used the program before. Oh and because something something chatroom is bad

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>>14727594
>>14727588
>>14727585
>>14727584
>>14727603
Stop being in denial. It's an obvious opportunity for Hasbro.

>>14727610
The really horrible thing about that whole deal was just how unbelievably badly done and bland Brad - that guy/stallion - was, and that Twilight would be fawning over someone like him. EG had writing on a level I don't think I've seen anywhere else in my life, Care Bears and Strawberry Shortcake has better writing than that thing.

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>Cadence didn't show up in the new episodes or in the intro

http://derpiboo.ru/481329

apples still giving out heart attacks

>>14727510
What if Rarity had to support her progressive political endeavors by helping her court attention from the corporate elite who hold the real power in Canterlot?

>>14727628
>everyone becomes princess
>slumber parties at Celestia's castle all day long and all night forever In an incestuous alicorn orgy for all of eternity

I can dig it

>>14727628
I didn't even say it's not happening, just that the writers don't handle anything well, instead they handle things by only handling them when convenient.

"Every little ensign wants to be an admiral"

- Rick Berman

>>14727642
She was mentioned.

Eventually Skyla will be born, and then she'll be another minor character.

>>14727642
If there's one thing I definitely liked about these two episodes, it's that. But we'll see her plenty later on anyway.

>>14727624
Sadly doesn't look like it. There were a few different gifs of the scene here
http://archive.heinessen.com/mlp/thread/S14680432#p14687039
but the only ones that have been reposted recently enough to not be 404'd are the ones that are already on Derpibooru.

And hunting down a show pic is pony related, it should be fine.

>>14727642
Princess Cadence is the Princess Luna.

Zero screeentime, zero episodes, only mentioned every once and a while.